The comedown. In this solo episode, Dia talks through a 5-step framework for dealing with that let down you get after a big moment. It’s real, and it deserves to be treated with care.
It’s real. The comedown. That feeling you get, the low, the low-level depression, that feeling of loneliness or emptiness after a big moment- that key speech you gave, that show you played, that big, huge conversation you’ve been preparing for. Dia and Baby A discuss their own comedown experiences and Dia shares a 5-step framework for dealing with your own:
Caring for your comedown:
The Power of Full Engagement is a great resource for managing your energy through a series of, or a lifetime of stepping into high performance moments with full engagement and without too much comedown.
➡️ Check it out here: Power of Full Engagement
Find all things Dia Bondi.
Arthur 00:00
You know, when I wouldn't be in this mode after a show and I'd have to say talk to fans or interact with people be at the merch booth, something like that, that I maybe came off as a little aloof or rude or something. I had turned off the performer part of me because I just I couldn't keep it on anymore. Yes. And you know, like, oh, no, I'm not. I'm not trying to be rude. I just literally have nothing for these people anymore, yeah.
Dia Bondi 00:23
Hey, everyone, this is Lead With Who You Are. I'm Dia Bondi. And on this show, we're exploring and discovering what it truly means to lead with who you are. And we're doing it with people who also lead with who they are. Maybe on purpose, maybe on accident, but either way, we're having conversations about what it means for you and me and all of us to leave in a way aligned with who we actually are. Let's talk today about come downs. In this episode, I'm inviting Baby A or Arthur Leon Adams, the third our producer and punk rocker to talk about the come down, post show let downs, that stuff we all have in business and in the arts. In this episode, I'll share a quick five part framework for treating your calm down when you get to the other side of a big customer pitch, a board meeting fundraising conversation or that keynote at your industry conference. And we share what comes up for each of us Baby A and I when we have to take the stage and recover from that adrenaline. Listen now so you can leave with who you are, where the lights are on. And then when they're not. Hey, just a quick reminder, you can subscribe to this show on your podcast platform of choice. We're live nearly everywhere and you can always listen to the show at diabondi.com. If there's a leader or innovator in your life, who is it their shiniest when they lead with who they truly are, Please share the show with them. And rate subscribe, and leave us a review makes a huge difference in the reach that the show has when you let everyone else know what you love about the show. Thanks so much. You love audio right? That's why you're here right now. We'll ask like an auctioneer. The audio book is available for pre order now. Or if you're listening to this episode after November 14 2023. It's live right now. Head to your favorite audiobook source and add it to your queue. You won't regret it because it has jokes in it. Kinda learn to ask like an auctioneer with me right in your headphones. All right, so Hi, Baby A hadiah so for those of you listening Baby A as Arthur Leon Adams this third. He is our producer and puts together each episode make it sound completely awesome when even when we have when I have audio flubs, and he has created all of the music you hear here in this podcast. Congratulations on that baby. sounds rad.
Arthur 03:19
Oh, yeah, I like it.
Dia Bondi 03:21
And for folks who are hearing you though, for the very first time, what you have to know is that early days of lead with who you are, which used to be the The Dia Bondi Show, Baby A and I used to talk with one another a lot, right, baby A?
Arthur 03:32
I would say almost every episode for the first 20, 30 episodes. Yeah,
Dia Bondi 03:37
Right. And for folks, we say this to our guests when we're doing when we're getting them prepped, but for those of you who are like Baby A, why is he called Baby A give them the spiel,
Arthur 03:46
right. We used to co work in this creative space in Berkeley. And there was another Arthur who also worked there. And he was about I don't know 20, 30 years older than me so he was big a big Arthur and I became baby Arthur or baby a
Dia Bondi 04:03
there it is. So like when a mutual friends of ours say like, oh, I talked to Arthur the other day. I'm always like, Baby A are big A?
Arthur 04:11
Right.
Dia Bondi 04:12
So there it is. So I wanted to bring you on again in the podcast a little bit because as I've said, in other episodes, I've been having like, not so much fun on the show. Although the the episode we recorded today was more fun. And it's not about our guests. It's about me like I've been grumble ramaa. And so it's more fun to have you pipe in once in a while baby. So this was a perfect this episode is a perfect opportunity to have a conversation with you around something you and I have talked about before. So I want to talk about the come down. And even before we recorded this episode, and I said hey, I want to talk about the come down. You knew exactly what I was talking about. Right? Oh, yeah, come down.
Arthur 04:49
Well, we've talked about it many times before. And I'm a performer. I've been playing music and before that, you know doing theater and things like that for many years and come down as after you've just put your all up there on stage or in a big meeting or at a conference or when you're speaking, and then afterward, you just, it's the way you feel afterward. And I, some people, you know, people have all different types of come downs, but the way I always describe it is that I feel empty inside and I need to just literally fill my body back up with life. Like I need to sit in a slump backstage, sometimes for a half hour after I perform
Dia Bondi 05:30
exactly for folks to get a picture like, you know, Baby A says like, oh, you know, I've been a musician I've done it been a performer before, like, he's been in a bunch of bands, like always, in lots of bands always working on musical projects. But when I first met him, he was super active and a locally famous band called The Phenomenon it's, you know, I can't tell you how many times I've told people like, Oh, my friend maybe is in a band he's playing tonight. And the phenomenon is people are like, oh, one of them been around a long time. You were sort of a second generation of phenomenon, you'd say,
Arthur 05:58
Yeah, I came in maybe seven, eight years after they had started. And then I was in for about 10, 12 years, where we kind of we've been on extended hiatus now since the pandemic started.
Dia Bondi 06:09
Right. But you're still you still are always, you know, playing and performing. And with promenade and other bands like, this is sort of like a punk setup, you guys. So for folks listening like small clubs, maybe medium sized clubs, packed wall the wall with people really loud, lots of adrenaline like that. I mean, so locally famous that one of your songs was sort of like the unofficial anthem for the our local A's, Oakland A's baseball team.
Arthur 06:34
Yeah, they used to play our song theme for Oakland during the games, at first during the seventh inning stretch. And then they played it a few times as the victory anthem. And A's fans were not too happy about it, because they wanted it to be celebration by cooling the most overplayed song of all time, but where do you get it?
Dia Bondi 06:53
Well, nonetheless, unfortunately, the A's may be leaving, in which case, they won't be playing it at all. So sorry about that. But just to say that, like, you know, these really these big moments for me, sometimes it's giving a talk, as you said, like it could be for you folks listening could be a really critical meeting, I know that this kind of come down happens after things like for my, in my communications work for my founder clients who have a really heavy board meeting, maybe they go, you know, I don't know, they go to a big industry event for the very first time in their founder life. Or maybe they are going into a big heavy fundraising call that feels like stakes are really, really high. And there's just adrenaline everywhere. It's not a punk club, like used to play with the phenomenons. But it is the business equivalent of that meaning there is just so much blood pumping, stakes feel really high. There's a lot of adrenaline, a lot of focus and a lot of preparation. And in these cases, we do spend and I spend in my career, a lot of time, we all spend a lot of time talking about how best to prepare, doing the preparation, doing the rehearsals leading up to the big moment. And this week that we're recording happens to be Dreamforce, which is a big show for a lot of executives there who are clients of mine, I do a lot of event prep for for that event. It is you know the equivalent of their punk show, right? They've got they've got large stages, 11 1200 people in the room, they're launching new projects and products. And it is a high stakes moment and the come down after these moments, folks, if you know what I'm talking about. If you have that experience, you are absolutely not alone. So I wanted to talk about that today. As a thing that's real, because again, we focus so much on the lead up, we don't pay a lot of attention to what happens on the other side. So talk about what the come downs look like for you baby a after you do your shows. And I remember one time we were just to jump in just to add here. I think I got done with a big talk or I came home from a multi day workshop one day when we were at the mall, we were in our co working space and you were like, Hey, how's it going? And I was like, Oh, I feel so I feel like oh, just I just came off of a thing. And I just have that come down feeling and you were like, Yeah, I know. I get that too. And I remember having this moment. I think we were sitting I sat on the floor in the sound room I think with you and we chatted about it.
Arthur 09:12
Yeah, well, I was like, Oh, you feel empty inside? Because I was like late and I'm editing something or whatever. And yeah, you came in. That's right. I remember that.
Dia Bondi 09:15
And I just I was like oh yeah, you have that and you were like yeah, I have that and we talked about it and something I've lived I used to sometimes call it the post workshop glow but it's not always a positive glow. It's not necessarily negative either. It's just a bizarre for me it's a it's a bizarre where I'm it's like being in a psychological airport. I'm neither here nor there. You know?
Arthur 09:42
Totally. That's a good analogy. I you know, it depends like when when we were touring a lot like go like going to Europe for six weeks, you know and playing every single night. It the come down isn't as hard after every one of those shows because it just starts to become like so second nature.
Dia Bondi 10:00
Don't you have one and two more days? That's the other thing you can't you don't have a really big come down because you know, on two more days I'm gonna in 48 hours, I got to do it again.
Arthur 10:08
Yes, yeah, so you're just like you're constantly on it, there's probably a giant one, like the few days when after we get back from something like that, right. But when it's like, I just recently did a reunion show with my old band Lambos in San Francisco at bottom of the hill, and it was this big show, we planned it for a long time, and got some really cool bands to play with us. And that show I hadn't played a rock show since before the pandemic really like with a big band and stuff like that. And the come down after that show with all this preparation, and like, putting my all into a set, which, in a way that I hadn't done a long time, where I was just onstage, like, I, I haven't done this since I was like, not in my 40s. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I was much younger, last time you did it, you were young, I was young. Yeah, and fit. And that come down. I mean, you have to delay it sometimes. Because you probably feel this too, because sometimes after you speak you, you'd have to do a q&a, or you have to go out and mingle with people, and you don't you have to delay your come down. Like you're still like kind of pushing that adrenaline through this part. That's not like part of the big performance, but it's still part of the thing. So I'll have to go over to the merch booth and stand there and like still be in a mode. But then when I get backstage, I just like, I would just slump, you just feel like a husk of a being sometimes after these,
Dia Bondi 11:29
and this can sometimes you know, for some folks, everybody, this can feel like a you know, a positive glow, you might have come down that feels like a come down that is sort of like a soft, warm gratitude glow of like, I can't believe I just did that. That just happen. What a wonderful experience for some of you, you might expect that experience and walk off stage or walk out of that big heavy conversation you had with your board or with you know, potential customer that you've been building and building and building up to be able to pitch to or whatever it is, and expect that sort of warm glow celebration and have a different feeling have that feeling like maybe is pointing to where you just sort of feel a little bit, you know, hollowed out or awkward that can happen, maybe because the experience wasn't what you expected or it was more positive than you expected. And you kind of can't ingest that, you know, for whatever reason, it doesn't always have to show up in terms of something negative, it can show a positive as well. But a whole range in in even for me, sometimes even when I have success. Like I did a TEDx this last quarter. It you know, I thought it did a pretty good job. I know Kotlin my brain, I did a pretty good job. And it turns out, I did a good enough job that the TED editorial team selected as an editor's picked, pick and really like that's how it got published. That's kind of a big deal.
Arthur 12:50
Let me say on my congratulations. I mean, I've said it to you, in person. But let's just get it on the record. Congratulations.
Dia Bondi 12:56
Thanks so much. The thing I have to fight after those kinds of moments, I went out for dinner with friends afterward, is actually like a weird shame feeling kind of shows up in my body. After I have a really intense or really good, even workshops to if it's kind of distinctly intense, or some real transformation happened. That look transformation doesn't happen like very, I sense it because I know what I'm looking for and how people make a change or have a realization but it's not always, you know, this isn't a business context. It's not outwardly demonstrative, but I know like, ooh, something hit there. I actually get both this weird positive glow of like that was I feel so grateful for that experience and a bizarre sort of gaslighting. Shamy feeling like Did that really happen the way I think it did? Am I inflating it in my mind? Like I almost question myself after something really positive happens in these high stakes moments. So it's a weird combo for me. It's a salty, sweet
Arthur 13:59
hmm, I get that. Yeah, I think that what's happened to me too, is I've I don't know if I felt that exact cocktail of emotions, but yes, definitely, like, even if I am generally feeling good, like and all these endorphins have released in my body and like maybe the physical sensations in my body feel good or or I feel relaxed or whatever after like, expending all that energy. You know, mentally Yeah, you can almost feel like a little depressed or something or, you know, and one thing that I received notes on from people was that you know, when I would be in this mode after a show, and I'd have to say talk to fans or you know, interact with people be at the merch booth, something like that, that I maybe came off as a little aloof or rude or something. You know, because I wasn't I had turned off the performer part of me because I just I couldn't keep it on any More or less, and I just like, and you know, like, oh, no, I'm not. I'm not trying to be rude. I just literally have nothing for these people anymore.
Dia Bondi 15:07
Yeah, and for those of you listening again, if you're not a musician, that's that's sort of like a really, I'm gonna say extreme because it's like pretty obvious, right? Like I did a big show and when you were playing with phenomenons you wore a big helmet and a costume and it was very performative. And folks can find it on the internet
Arthur 15:22
jumped all around. Yeah, like it's been around. Yeah, it's
Dia Bondi 15:25
a big deal out, surfed Mosh. Yeah, lots of calories are getting burned. And then and then it's a stark transition into that other thing. But for you listening, maybe you are that person who's giving, you know, the big talk at an industry event. And that same night, that same afternoon, you're gonna go have to walk the floor or be at a demo booth. And then that same night, you're gonna have to go out with customers. And it's, it's, you know, to hold it together all the way through that. And sort of, in some ways, even bypass your come down because you've you're gonna go to bed delay or delayed and to in a way that is so far isn't always a great choice, because because it come down doesn't need to be a collapse, you know. So I want to talk about ways in which you may be a manager come down the way I manage my come down and how I think about folks like you who are giving that big client pitch, you're going to do that fundraising roadshow for the day, maybe you're you're hosting your first book launch event, I know, I'm going to have some come downs coming up. When I go do my book launch events. In November, I'm expecting that launch party will be the first time where I where I will have come down from from this because everything although I've you know, there could have been a come down after I submitted my first manuscript, which was a wonderful experience. It wasn't public. It wasn't a it wasn't, you know, chock full of adrenaline. It wasn't performative. It was quiet, me and my manuscript, so it didn't have that didn't cause that effect. So how do you like what are some of the things that you've done to manage your own? Come down me, I heard you say, go back, don't go backstage and sit in a slouch. But other things that maybe you've done sort of intentionally to skirt this problem of coming off as aloof to fans that exactly want, they still want. They want to buy the t shirt, they want the signature, they want to tell you they've been following you for 10 years, you know, they want to engage? Yep,
Arthur 17:16
yep. I think that one thing that I used to do a lot, and I developed this developed over time, because I would find that if I performed the show, and then went backstage and went to my little slump, and then tried to go out, I was still like, very, very like, just in that mode of an empty husk. very mellow. My personality mellowed significantly. And it wasn't great for, you know, doing the stuff interacting with the fans,
Dia Bondi 17:44
right? Because you're kind of you create sort of an artificial ending for yourself. Yeah.
Arthur 17:48
exactly. So what I started doing, for me at least, and I don't know how this applies to, you know, other how other people would deal with this. But I would jump straight off the stage, at the end of the show directly to where I needed to be at the merch booth or like talking with fans still, in my whole get up. And just like, the performance continued for another 10 to 15 minutes, right, you know, and then after it all cleared, and I didn't have to talk to anybody or sign anything or anything like that anymore, then I would go back and do my thing,
Dia Bondi 18:19
right, when there was no expectation for an encore of any type.
Arthur 18:24
Yeah, exactly. So there's that. And that really helped. Because, I mean, that that helped in many ways for the performance and for the show. And for the fans and stuff to like, see me coming off stage going straight to the merch, you know, follow what worked for you conveniently worked for them. Yeah. And also we sold more merch. Yeah. But then also, you know, like, I mean, this is very basic, but like, I would drink like an entire huge bottle of water or like several glasses of water, like just to, like, physically replenish myself afterwards, you know. And a lot of times, I'd go outside and just feel the wind on my face or something like that.
Dia Bondi 19:04
Yeah, that's nice. I think for folks who maybe have to come off stage and go right into like hosting a demo booth or a customer conversation or you know, in a in a in an event context like that, noticing that if you keep it going is that better and healthier for you. So you have bigger time to actually do that come down care that you need later. Like for some of us, a six minute come down sort of after care routine is great and will rev your engine so you can go do the other thing you can go to that client dinner you can for some of you like Baby A, you may need to push that out a little bit further so that you have an official and complete ending to the night and then you can go take care of yourself. There's a beautiful book called The Power of full engagement by Jim Lorre and Tony Schwartz about being able to to sustain a level of engagement. for longer periods of time and ways in which you can build in micro recoveries, to let you keep that sustained attention, what looks like sustained attention over a longer period of time, my husband right now is in LA at a at a customer event, he is a, he is a an introvert, and this entire, you know, three days is is very demanding on his personality. And he'd be somebody that and he does take small micro come down, you know, sort of care routines in order to be able to do the marathon of the three days, you know, for some of us that that's, we have to push it out to like day three, I have four hours before I head to the airport, where I go and get a workout, give myself a nice meal, don't do any talking, whatever it might be. But if anybody's interested in this book, I can add it to the show notes for this episode. So I think that's really interesting noticing, you know, whether, you know, if you know that, like, oh, I have a three hour window, that's two and a half hours of performance at the half hour to keep it rolling, so that then I can peel off and completely be in my own recovery. Or if you're someone who can regenerate in 15 minutes and dive back in I can I can have for me, you know, being in front of the room, taking 15 minutes out, lets me re engage in a way that lets me take care of that of the of the come down. But it's almost like I do it as in a step down, knowing that there's a full one waiting for me at the end of my whole day. But I feel like I will engage in those step downs in a way that, that helps me and makes a lot of sense for me. But I do it intentionally. It's not just like, Oh, I feel like I have to get out of here for 15 minutes. Like, I almost know that as soon as I'm done. I'm gonna say hi to people, and I'm walking outside where nobody can see me for 15 minutes, I'm gonna lay in the grass, and then I'm going to and then I'm going to walk around the parking lot and just go Bad's very intentional, actually.
Arthur 21:54
one thing that I started to do, especially on long haul tours, where my instinct was to literally give everything I had every single night was to maybe only give 85% of what I had every night. So that the come downs, you know, and the recovery periods weren't so hard. And you know, it's like, yeah, maybe not every show, people are seeing like the absolute, you know, balls to the wall like crazy version of me ...
Dia Bondi 22:28
is a pretty good chance you're 85 is still feels like 100 for folks, did you ever have shows where you played sick? Or you played a little out under the weather? Or you played intentionally sort of in third gear instead of fourth gear? And it was still great.
Arthur 22:43
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's lot like, whenever we would tour, like in the winter or something like that, everyone in the band would get sick at some point. And it would chassis you know, you get a tour bug and pass around. So I definitely would have to perform a few shows on those tours with a cold hold are the thing that happens, at least for me when once you get on stage and you just start the set, like the adrenaline just carries you through for that. But then, you know, obviously then you feel even worse and more empty afterwards. And so then it's like, Hey, guys, I'm not doing merch tonight. I'm not, you know, like you just set you just set the expectation that like, hey, these on this day or whatever, I'm not going to do any of the extra stuff. I am literally going to just go back and drink tea, like hot water or something like afterward.
Dia Bondi 23:29
Yeah. So this is also I think, a really nice point for so So for some of you, who might recognize that you always have a big come down after a big customer pitch. I know I keep going back to these because not everyone is in a punk band.
Arthur 23:41
Yeah. Speaking from my experience.
Dia Bondi 23:44
Yeah, that you know that recognizing that part of your come down is a little easier if you engage in a in a Get Ready routine, that kind of like that sort of the self care starts before the big show happens doesn't wait until later. So I can think of you know auctioneering for me, this is a little bit like I don't often get the like shame over that I get when I do something that is squarely in my professional domain, I think because it's although it's happened a few times and it was because things didn't go so well or because I couldn't tell if they went really well because the lighting was bad or the the audience was new for me. But you know that self care stuff actually starts beforehand. I'm not social in the room with people before I get on stage. I usually stay in the back in the corner where sort of the production crew can't afford to talk to me because sometimes they'll want to tell me about what happened last year when it wasn't me as an auctioneer and I it's too easy for me to start comparing myself to what happened last year or maybe I'm not going to be that good. I can start to like pre shame spiral myself. So protecting my energy protecting my I don't know my restore internal resourcefulness is part of being able to soften the landing for might come down on the other side. So I don't have to jar myself into being ready for being on the stage taking care of everybody else's needs before I go live. And then I can sort of set the intentions for how I want to feel on the other side. And that can really help a lot. So, you know, I'm bringing this up, because you might be even a leader that is putting your team in front of other high stakes. Customers for the very first time I have clients who invite particular team members into their board meetings for more junior folks that have never been in the scenario before, or pitch a section of the pitch to a particular customer. That's really high stakes. And you know, as a leader, don't underestimate the long tail impact for folks that you might be putting in these new scenarios where their visibility is higher than they've ever experienced before, where the pressure feels higher than they've ever experienced before. And to be aware of how how what the aftercare might need to look like and feel like on the other side of that, don't assume that all of the junior people on your team are perfectly comfortable just going out for drinks right after the big pitch, many of them might need to cool off for a second and process, what just happened for them, where they feel vulnerable to, you know, having blown it here or there, just to be able to get their wits about them again, before they can go back and reengage particularly with their managers and people who are higher in the hierarchy, where they don't maybe feel, you know, as safe as they would if they were sitting around the table with a bunch of friends. So I think I'm bringing this up to say a couple things. One is the come down is real. You know, you founders and leaders who talked to me after when I say how did it go, and you have all those funny feelings about it, mixed feelings, ambivalence, sort of a combination of that maybe that sweet and salty. Like I mentioned to you before, you are not alone. That is the thing, even in rock and roll, that is a thing. Number one. Number two, when you are up leveling other people on your teams and putting them into scenarios that can create a come down for them, let them have an hour afterwards, check in with them about it, you know, help find opportunities to to let them know what they did well, in case there's someone in case there's someone like me that even when I'm getting an A, I can have a shame storm over, you know, later, I can talk myself into believing it wasn't as good as it was. My TEDx was a perfect example and ended up getting selected as an editor's pick, I mean, come on. And three, that you can choose whether you if it's a long haul performance, you know, like at the summit, we're going into fall conference season at starting inbound was last week sales Dreamforce is this week, there are opportunities across the board for you, as an executive or as a leader to get into these situations, it has to be a marathon to find opportunities to do a step down on your way to your final come down. And to notice and build in recovery time for you. And I want to give you sort of a little framework that might be that might be helpful. And you can build off it or use do your do your own. So to me, it's like it's sort of these 1234 these five steps, which is one, when you're done. And this is in baby a scenario this would be after the merch conversation when you really have a stretch of privacy. To take time to take care and be tender with yourself. Even in the celebrations there can be vulnerability, so to be tender with yourself afterwards to to reflect on what worked and lock that in as something you'll do again to get familiar with. Wow, when I stand in the back of the room and sip a hot tea beforehand and not try to socialize. It made my first you know, taking of the stage feels so much more grounded. Great. Notice those things so that you can build them into your regular routine. Next time. Three, forgive yourself for what didn't work. I in my TEDx, I had a little flub, that, you know, my friends and family noticed maybe you won't notice if you watch it, but I certainly noticed it. And I had to actively forgive myself because my dress rehearsal flawless. So we're going to forgive yourself for what didn't work for, you're going to find somebody to debrief with that is a mentor that is a peer and someone who's not going to give you quote unquote, feedback, but let you move through your own through your own come down. Here's number five, you're gonna see this particular moment in the continuum of big moments. You know, Baby A goes on tour in Europe for six weeks, they're gonna play 23 shows, you know, you could have you could have a blast of a great show on Tuesday, and a terrible show on Thursday that is inside the context of a long marathon. So there is no one show one moment that's going to make or break. Okay, so putting putting your your formats, whether it was really high or really low, both of those are equally demanding on our psychology to put it in the context of a continuum of critical conversations, critical moments, high performance moments you're going to have in your career along your creative pursuits in your performance portfolio. So today, maybe a I think this is, you know, it's fun to talk to you and reflect on these come down moments and to remember that like, they're real, they're for all of us, and they deserve a little bit of attention. Absolutely. Thanks so much for being with us today. Everyone. You can always listen to all our episodes that lead with who you are, wherever you get your podcasts, and maybe it's nice to see you on the mic again. I hear you
Arthur 30:42
nice to nice to be heard.
Dia Bondi 30:45
Alright, everybody.
Arthur 30:46
see you later.
Dia Bondi 30:50
Lead With Who You are is a production of Dia Bondi Communications and is scored mixed and produced by Arthur Leon Adams the third. Have a question or an inquiry? Reach out to us at hello@diabondi.com. You can like, share, rate and subscribe at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your favorite shows. Go to diabondi.com for the shownotes to find our tools, frameworks, content and programs to help you and your team speak powerfully and lead with who you are.